A conversation with ChatGPT about Art, AI-Art, and how to write a Reddit article about it…

JP

Can you tell me about the opposition between painters like Cabanel or Bouguereau and more “modern” painters like Manet?

Certainly! The opposition between painters like Cabanel and Bouguereau, who were associated with the academic tradition in 19th-century French painting, and more “modern” painters like Manet can be understood in the context of the broader artistic movements and debates of the time.

Academic painting, which was supported and promoted by the French Academy of Fine Arts, adhered to traditional notions of beauty and excellence in art, and tended to favor highly finished, highly polished works that followed established conventions and techniques. Painters like Cabanel and Bouguereau were part of this tradition, and their work was generally characterized by a classical, realistic style, with a focus on carefully rendered detail and an emphasis on idealized forms.

On the other hand, modern painters like Manet were part of a movement that sought to challenge and break away from the constraints of the academic tradition. These artists were interested in experimenting with new styles and techniques, and they often sought to capture the energy and dynamism of contemporary life. Manet, in particular, is known for his innovative approach to painting, which combined elements of the traditional and the modern and often challenged the conventions of the time. His work was often seen as rebellious and controversial, and he was a key figure in the development of the Impressionist movement, which sought to capture the fleeting, ephemeral qualities of light and color.

Overall, the opposition between these two groups of painters reflects the broader tensions and debates that were taking place in the art world of 19th-century France, as traditionalists and modernists struggled to define the direction of the art of their time.

JP

Can you write a blog article about this opposition, with more names and a few examples of painters/paintings?

Sure, here is a blog article about the opposition between traditional academic painters and more modernist painters in 19th-century France:

In the 19th century, the art world in France was marked by tension between traditional academic painters and more modernist artists who sought to challenge the conventions of the time.

The academic tradition in French painting was supported and promoted by the French Academy of Fine Arts, and it adhered to traditional notions of beauty and excellence in art. Painters who were part of this tradition, such as Jean-Léon Gérôme, Gabriel-François Doyen, and Alexandre Cabanel, were known for their highly finished, highly polished works that followed established techniques and conventions. These artists often depicted classical subjects in a realistic style, with a focus on carefully rendered detail and an emphasis on idealized forms.

On the other hand, there was a group of modernist painters who sought to break away from the constraints of the academic tradition. These artists, such as Édouard Manet, Edgar Degas, and Pierre-Auguste Renoir, were interested in experimenting with new styles and techniques, and they often sought to capture the energy and dynamism of contemporary life. Manet, in particular, is known for his innovative approach to painting, which combined elements of the traditional and the modern and often challenged the conventions of the time. His work, such as “Olympia” and “Le déjeuner sur l’herbe,” was often seen as rebellious and controversial, and it played a key role in the development of the Impressionist movement.

The Impressionists, who included Claude Monet and Alfred Sisley, sought to capture the fleeting, ephemeral qualities of light and color in their paintings. They rejected the highly finished, polished style of the academic tradition and instead focused on capturing the impression of a scene or moment, often using loose, rapid brushstrokes and vibrant, high-keyed colors.

Overall, the opposition between these two groups of painters reflects the broader tensions and debates that were taking place in the art world of 19th-century France, as traditionalists and modernists struggled to define the direction of the art of their time. While the academic painters were concerned with upholding traditional standards of beauty and excellence, the modernists sought to push the boundaries and create something new and innovative. Both groups made important contributions to the development of art in this period, and their work continues to be influential and relevant today.

JP

Great. Do you think there’s a similar “opposition” of style in the AI-Arts of today (Midjourney and Stable Diffusion)?

It is certainly possible that there are opposing styles or approaches to creating art with artificial intelligence (AI) today, just as there have been opposing styles or approaches to creating art throughout history. However, it is difficult to say for certain without more context about the specific artists or works you are referring to.

In general, the use of AI in the creation of art is a relatively new and rapidly evolving field, and there are likely to be a wide range of styles and approaches being used. Some artists may use AI as a tool to generate new ideas or to assist in the creative process, while others may use it to create entire works of art on its own. Some artists may be more interested in using AI to explore and push the boundaries of what is possible with this technology, while others may be more interested in using it to create works that are more traditional or familiar in style.

Without knowing more about the specific artists or works you are referring to, it is difficult to say whether there is a specific “opposition” of style in the AI arts today. However, it is likely that there are a wide range of styles and approaches being used, and that there may be some differences or opposing viewpoints among different artists working in this field.

JP

Write an article for Reddit about all this, the opposition between academic painting and more modern painting in the 19th century is similar to the today (AI art) seek between detailed, perfect portraits people want to make today, instead of pushing boundaries and inventing real new images.

Sure, here is an article for Reddit about the similarities between the opposition between academic painting and more modern painting in the 19th century and the use of artificial intelligence (AI) in the creation of art today:

As an avid art enthusiast, I have been thinking a lot lately about the ways in which the art world has evolved over time and the various movements and debates that have shaped the course of art history. One thing that has particularly struck me is the way in which the opposition between traditional academic painting and more modernist approaches in the 19th century is similar to the debates and tensions that are taking place in the world of AI art today.

In the 19th century, the art world in France was marked by a tension between traditional academic painters, such as Jean-Léon Gérôme and Alexandre Cabanel, and more modernist artists like Édouard Manet and the Impressionists. The academic tradition, which was supported by the French Academy of Fine Arts, favored highly finished, polished works that followed established conventions and techniques, while the modernists sought to break away from these constraints and create something new and innovative.

Today, we are seeing a similar tension in the use of AI in the creation of art. On one hand, there are those who are using AI to generate highly detailed, realistic portraits or other works that are meant to be indistinguishable from those created by a human artist. These works may be impressive in their technical proficiency, but they can also be seen as conservative or lacking in creativity, as they rely on pre-established techniques and conventions rather than pushing the boundaries of what is possible.

On the other hand, there are those who are using AI to explore new and innovative approaches to creating art. These artists may be more interested in using AI to generate new ideas or to assist in the creative process, rather than simply replicating what has already been done. They may be more interested in using AI to create works that are truly unique and original, rather than simply replicating the styles and techniques of the past.

Overall, it seems to me that the opposition between academic painting and more modernist approaches in the 19th century is similar to the tensions and debates that are taking place in the world of AI art today. While some artists are using AI to create highly detailed, polished works that adhere to established conventions, others are using it to explore new and innovative approaches that push the boundaries of what is possible. Whether you are more drawn to the traditional or the modern, it is clear that both approaches have the potential to produce beautiful and meaningful works of art.

JP

Great! What could be the title (in one line) for this article?

Here are a few options for a title for this article:

“Exploring the Tensions between Traditional and Modern Approaches to AI Art”

“The Similarities between 19th-Century Painting and 21st-Century AI Art”

“Tracing the Evolution of Artistic Debates through the Ages: From Academic Painting to AI Art”

“Navigating the Boundaries between Convention and Innovation in AI Art”

JP

I choose “Similarities between 19th-Century Painting and 21st-Century AI Art” but I’d love to be a bit more precise, can I add something like “- academic or inventive”?

Certainly! Here is a revised title that incorporates your suggested modification:

“Similarities between 19th-Century Painting and 21st-Century AI Art: Academic or Inventive Approaches”

This title more clearly conveys the focus of the article on the opposition between traditional academic approaches and more modernist, innovative approaches in both 19th-century painting and 21st-century AI art. It also suggests that these opposing approaches may be characterized as either “academic” or “inventive,” which helps to further emphasize the tension between these two approaches.

JP

What are two examples of these 19th century times (portrait paintings) to show the difference between academic portrait and modern portrait?

Here are two examples of portrait paintings from the 19th century that illustrate the difference between academic and modern approaches:

“The Artist’s Mother” by Jean-Auguste-Dominique Ingres: This portrait, painted in 1814, is a good example of an academic portrait from the 19th century. It is highly finished and polished, with a careful attention to detail and a focus on idealized forms. The sitter is depicted in a classical pose, with a dignified expression and a sense of calm and composure.

“The Old Guitarist” by Pablo Picasso: This portrait, painted in 1903, is a good example of a modern portrait from the 19th century. It is characterized by a more expressive, emotive style, with bold, simplified forms and a sense of movement and energy. The sitter is depicted in a relaxed, informal pose, with a sad, pensive expression that conveys a sense of vulnerability and vulnerability.

Overall, these two portraits illustrate the contrast between the academic tradition, which favored highly finished, polished works that followed established conventions, and the modernist approach, which sought to break away from these constraints and create something new and innovative.

JP

Yes, but painted in the same decade could be a better example…

Certainly, here are two examples of portrait paintings from the 19th century that were painted in the same decade and illustrate the difference between academic and modern approaches:

“The Kiss of the Sphinx” by Jean-Léon Gérôme: This portrait, painted in 1866, is a good example of an academic portrait from the 19th century. It is highly finished and polished, with a careful attention to detail and a focus on idealized forms. The sitter is depicted in a classical pose, with a dignified expression and a sense of calm and composure.

“Olympia” by Édouard Manet: This portrait, painted in 1863, is a good example of a modern portrait from the 19th century. It is characterized by a more expressive, emotive style, with bold, simplified forms and a sense of movement and energy. The sitter is depicted in a relaxed, informal pose, with a direct gaze that challenges the viewer and a sense of self-assurance.

Overall, these two portraits illustrate the contrast between the academic tradition, which favored highly finished, polished works that followed established conventions, and the modernist approach, which sought to break away from these constraints and create something new and innovative. Both portraits were painted in the same decade, but they demonstrate the different artistic styles and approaches that were being used at the time.

JP

There’s a painting with a nymph on the sea waters painted around 1863 too, with angels around. It’s in Orsay Museum. What is it?

It is possible that the painting you are describing is “The Birth of Venus” by Alexandre Cabanel. This painting, which was completed in 1863, depicts the mythological figure Venus, the goddess of love and beauty, emerging from the sea as a fully-grown woman. The painting shows Venus standing on a shell and being attended to by two angels, who are holding out a cloak for her to cover her nakedness. “The Birth of Venus” is considered to be an example of academic painting, as it adheres to traditional notions of beauty and excellence in art and follows established techniques and conventions. The painting is currently housed in the Musée d’Orsay in Paris.

And:

What are the most harmonically complex songs of Bob Dylan?

What are the most harmonically complex songs of Bob Dylan?, I asked in BobDylan SubReddit. I got many interesting answers…

To Fall in Love With You, which was never really finished, has an extended progression which takes a long long time to get to the key chord.

I’ve always found On a Rainy Afternoon to have a very elegant chord progression, though it wasn’t ever completed. Very simple in the beginning, but the resolution of the progression gets much more involved.

Lay Lady Lay actually has kind of a weird chord progression, which I just realized yesterday.

Nashville Skyline has soooo many amazing changes. Among my top 5 faves

I threw it all away has some funky changes as well now that I think of it

I’m very partial to Tell Me it Isn’t True

I was going to say Oh Sister but I just remembered I thought the other day that it sounded like Knockin on Heavens Door … not Lay Lady Lay … so I am not helpful lol but I want to see if someone knows!

I think it’s similar to All Along the Watchtower, but not exactly the same if I’m remembering correctly

Frankie Lee And Judas Priest – FLJP is G with a capo on the 7th fret (so effectively C), but it’s G, Bm, Am, G (I iii ii) whereas LLL is A, C#m, G, Bm (I iii bVII ii). The G (bVII) in LLL gives it a unique characteristic not present in FLJP. It also gives it a chromatically descending bassline – A – G# – G – F#. I can’t recall any other BD songs with a chromatically descending bassline like that (though I suspect there are some bridges which do it.

House of the resizing sun and death of emmit till have a C/G D/F# F bassline which gets close and simple twist of fate has E, EMaj7, E7, A which gets close but it’s not the bassline so much.

The rolling thunder review SToF were G, Bm, G7, C which is the closest song, in spirit, to LLL I can think of offhand.

Make You feel My Love also has a rather nice chromatically descending bassline.

There is an interesting ascending bassline in the pre-chorus of Too Much of Nothing.

Ballad of a Thin Man has another chromatic descending bassline in the start of the verse.

There it is! I really need to listen to JWH more I’m pretty unfamiliar with it compared to the rest of 60s/70s work

I will say that Dylan and folk music in general though is not where you go for harmonic complexity. If you compare Dylan and, say, Steely Dan or queen by that metric, he’s pretty primitive. But he does have some deceptively great melodies and chord progressions, as evidenced by the number of artists who want to cover his work. And as for that one-of-a-kind voice and those lyrics, well, we all know about that.

One of the first ones that comes to mind is Forever Young Fast Version

Dear Landlord and In the Garden have some interesting stuff going on. A lot of the gospel songs have chord progressions that vary from the “standard” folk patterns.

Black Rider, In the Garden, Dear Landlord.

Just listening to In the Garden, wow, these constant stairs-like modulations (transpositions?) are amazing!

Moonlight.

I Contain Multitudes has some pretty complex chords

In search of little Sadie (or whichever of the two plays first on self portrait) has a strange chromatic chord progression that’s very unusual, and it’s literally Dylan reharmonizing an old folk song so that in itself is pretty interesting to me

Dear Landlord. And if I hear it right, blind willie mctell has an interesting chord progression too

Tears of Rage comes to mind, its sooo pretty and a really unique structure. Richard Manuel composed the music to Bob’s words on that one though.

On A Night Like This uses an Am/F# (F# half-diminished)

In the Garden” is probably the answer, as it modulates four or five times in the space of a verse while the melody employs a couple scales.

Dear Landlord” modulates all over the place as well

Black Rider” is a truly novel progression and the final contender for most harmonically advanced song with its chromaticism and modulations.

“Covenant Woman”, “Moonlight”, “I Contain Multitudes”, “Make You Feel My Love”, “Too Much of Nothing”, “Ring Them Bells” all deserve honorable mention but are not as complex as the three listed at the top.

Tonight I’ll Be Staying Here With You’ has some pretty interesting stuff going on. The verses are a pretty straight forward G-C thing, but then in the B-section the C swaps to a minor chord, and all of a sudden there’s an A-flat major thrown in there which transitions back to C-maj and then A-min.

Mama, You Been On My Mind – I believe it is in the key of C and uses an E7, D7, and G#dim7.

Gates of eden really stands out, because most of his early stuff is very simple chord wise. But here he modulated between g major and c major all the time. And then that Bb major comes out of nowhere and it sounds just great. That Bb to C to G is actually kind of an early punk chord progression.

This Wheel’s on Fire has more chords than most Dylan tunes and a diminished chord in there as well, which he doesn’t use a lot. Rick Danko is credited for composing the music with Dylans lyrics.

Baby let me follow you down

It’s all over now baby blue” which is in C, uses an E major on the transition, which is and sounds interesting

In thE Garden, Dear Landlord, Moonlight, and Black Rider are the ones I see most commonly mentioned here

I’ve seen people post before that In the Garden is probably his most complex song harmonically which I would have to agree with.

Birds for scale

We all noticed it, but without words :

When, in a movie, there’s a “huge place”, a monument, a city, a monster, they put “birds for scale”, a bunch of!

I was happy to discover there was a SubReddit for this :

https://www.reddit.com/r/BirdsForScale/

For this statue, birds are everywhere (and men’s silhouettes for good measure) :

Of course this made me think of its structure, and asked myself where else it could be used :

“Add elements B of another nature/scale to A, to, by contrast, make the audience feel and understand, size or else of A”.

What if I used prose in a poem of verses? What if used jazz in seconds of an electronic music track? What if I used a photo in a part of a painting? What if in a classroom I…

It’s not a process of surprise, like Strangeization, it’s a process of adding something for contrast.

https://afrenchtoolbox.wordpress.com/2016/01/13/strangeization-tool-eyebrow-criteria/

Voilà! I let you think on this. Have a good day!

 

 

Ze French Coronavirus Chronicles, 2

Ze French Coronavirus Chronicles, 2

Like many of us, I suppose, I read (in French and English) the news every morning. I will have to think about… distancing about it, though. One could easily be overwhelmed by this epidemic mess.

Curiously or not (Twitter is really a mess), I find informations on Reddit :

https://www.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/new/

I know why : Reddit is a social media made on… topics. Each group is moderated. Thus it’s rich and adult. There’s a sister Subreddit, more professional, here :

https://www.reddit.com/r/COVID19

***

I watched Yesterday (2019) : “A struggling musician realizes he’s the only person on Earth who can remember The Beatles after waking up in an alternate timeline where they never existed.” – that’s pretty good!

***

It’s too early for real good news, but I watch : China is recovering, Italians sing at the balcony, people try to help the eldest, dolphins visits ports in Mediterranean sea, and Venice waters are clear and transparent for the first time in decades. Dramatic times, but plenty of best things will blossom from all this, I’m sure…

***

I know nothing about economics, but I find interesting that some countries ruled by right-wing and conservatism (lower taxes, free market capitalism, deregulation), in a time of crisis, have to begin to think and act like what they call “Socialists”.

Instead of letting the market “decide” (and companies die), they inject billions in the system to “help”. Instead of letting people die home (or letting the “no sick leave” people go to work – and infect colleagues), they talk about free testing for everyone, of taking care of people who need it instead of the eldest and health “insured”, and injecting big money in the system.

Imagine a right-winged president somewhere clinging to his system, watching the collapse of banks, all booksellers and many things, and refusing to take charge of the health of the poors, just because it’s what the Right does? “It’s the invisible hand of the market, only the strongest will survive, good”.

I think that, in history, many social progresses have been made during big recessions, epidemics and wars… I should check this tomorrow.

https://thehill.com/opinion/finance/491302-in-a-crisis-even-conservatives-turn-to-progressive-economic-policies

***

I’m definitively not a tourist, and I respect those 10% who visit a country with respect and cultural curiosity. Therefore I can not help being amazed to see Venice and Paris transformed in quiet deserts, and no buses around the Pisa tower and the Taj Mahal. The pollution plummeting is also something…

***

Watching Fellini Roma (1972), a necklace of scenes about the city. It’s brilliant, sewed with incredible short pure magic moments (the welders next to a tramway, flashing lights in a street, some priests climbing stairs). The ring road scene begins normally with traffic jams, cars and toll booths, and begins a crescendo with a film crew with a crane, heavy rain, a horse, smoke, an accident, ruins. It’s so good and crazy that I have to stop the movie.

Fellini is complicated and very rich, he fills the viewer with amazement and sounds, symbols and complex structures. It’s brilliant and exhausting. I don’t mind to watch these extraordinary films… in pieces. In between, I read, I think, I smile!

Antonioni/Fellini/Visconti & other trios to operate on…

***

Tonight I’ll watch An Officer and a Gentleman (1982 – the best Richard Gere – and with Debra Winger!).

If you want some reading about movies, here’s some in my blog :

https://afrenchtoolbox.wordpress.com/category/movie/

Thanks for reading! Stay safe!

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